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对话思想者｜西方为何惧怕“中国模式”？

CGTN CGTN 2022-04-24
收录于合集 #对话思想者 10个


编者按：“社会主义思想正在东山再起。”尤里·塔夫罗夫斯基教授在接受CGTN主播王冠采访时表示，西方之所以如此忌惮中国模式，是因为中国发展出了适应本国国情的社会主义，在西方模式之外寻得了人类发展进步之路，这对世界上其他国家极具吸引力。


Wang Guan: Mr. Tavrovsky, you wrote a new book about China. It is called China in the New Era. What is this book all about?
塔夫罗夫斯基先生您写了一本关于中国的新书，书名是《中国奇迹——走向伟大复兴的新时代中国》，能否介绍下这本书的内容？
 
Yury Tavrovsky: Actually, this book is about China's new era. It's about the "Cold War", which is a reaction of the West to the Chinese miracle. It is also a book on the "Cold War" against Russia, and about those two "Cold Wars." Actually, a new "world Cold War", which America is waging on two fronts. And the general idea is that Beijing and Moscow shouldn't allow Washington to separate us. We should stay together, and this is the only opportunity for us to survive, and maybe to win in this "Cold War", and also not to give America chance to start hot war. This is the idea of the book. But of course, it will contain much more information, much more new ideas.
这本书主要介绍了中国的新时代，书中谈到了新“冷战”，新“冷战”是西方国家对于中国发展奇迹的一种反应。书中也谈到了针对俄罗斯的“冷战”，所以这本书介绍了两场“冷战”。实际上，美国正在两个阵线上同时发动新“冷战”。本书的主旨在于，中俄两国绝不能被美国挑拨离间，我们必须保持团结。这是我们生存的唯一机会，也是我们赢得这场“冷战”的唯一机会。同时，绝不能给美国发动热战的机会，这就是这本书的主要观点。当然，书中还包含了许多其他信息以及新想法。
 
Wang Guan: There are many rhetorics, campaigns, war of words against China these days, and initiatives launched by some Western politicians. For example, they're trying to delink and decouple the CPC and the Chinese society. They're trying to vilify the CPC by mostly focusing on its challenges in the past and in the present. How do you look at this campaign? Will those rhetorics and campaigns against China and the CPC only intensify and worsen, going forward?
当下有不少针对中国的口诛笔伐和反华活动，西方政客也发起了不少反华倡议。例如，他们试图切断中国共产党与中国社会的联系，他们不断诋毁中国共产党，大谈过去和现在中国共产党所面临的挑战，您如何看待这些活动？这些针对中国和中国共产党的负面言论和活动未来是否会愈演愈烈？
 
Yury Tavrovsky: I think that the driving force behind China's success or Chinese miracle is socialism with the Chinese characteristics. This concept was the biggest theoretical invention of the CPC. The Party has invented it. It was making practical trials of this concept for a couple of decades. Then in 2012, the Party offered the Chinese nation, the improved model of this concept called "socialism with Chinese characteristics for the new era." It is clear for me, and it is clear for all experts that this model suits China best. Actually, it is the only explanation of the People's Republic of China dynamism in the past few decades, and sustainability under harsh conditions of the COVID-19 pandemic, and the America-initiated "Cold War." And I think Chinese President Xi Jinping was absolutely correct, saying on July 1, during those festivities of the CPC's hundred anniversary, that socialism with Chinese characteristics is a new model for human advancement. So this model looks like a mortal threat to the West. At the same time, it is very attractive to other nations. I believe that it should be thoroughly studied and learned in other countries, all over the world, especially young people should learn it because socialist ideas are coming back, are becoming very popular in every country, including Russia.
我认为中国成功和中国奇迹背后的动力之源是中国特色社会主义。这个概念是中国共产党最重要的理论创造，中国共产党提出了这个概念，几十年来一直围绕这个概念开展实践。2012年中国共产党对这个概念进行完善升级并提出“新时代中国特色社会主义”。我和众多专家都很清楚，这种发展模式最符合中国国情。事实上，这是过去几十年来中国蓬勃发展的唯一解释。它使中国在面对艰难的疫情形势和美国发动的新“冷战”时展现出强大的韧性。我认为，习近平主席在7月1日中国共产党成立一百周年庆祝活动上的重要讲话完全正确。中国特色社会主义创造了人类进步的新模式，因此这个模式看起来对西方是一个致命的威胁。与此同时，它对其他国家而言很有吸引力。我认为世界各国都应该仔细研究和借鉴这种发展模式，年轻人尤其需要学习了解它。因为社会主义思想正在东山再起，在包括俄罗斯在内的众多国家里越来越受到人们欢迎。
 
Wang Guan: Many in the West argue that it is a failed experiment. They're focusing on its frustrations and failures of the past when we think about what happened in Russia. How do you look at those arguments?
西方许多人认为社会主义是一次失败的实验。他们只看到过去社会主义事业遭受的挫折和失败，强调昔日在俄罗斯发生的事情。您如何看待这些观点？
 
Yury Tavrovsky: I think socialism has many models, like capitalism. Soviet model of socialism was obviously inefficient, and the Soviet Union failed. China tried Soviet model. It wasn't very successful at it. And then we have this socialism with Chinese characteristics. We had reforms and opening-up first. Then it developed into socialism with Chinese characteristics. And then President Xi offered his "Chinese Dream" as an improved model of this socialism. So socialism is actually counter attacking liberal model. That's why the West is so much afraid of China. It is afraid of this model of socialism. This is my opinion.
我认为社会主义与资本主义一样存在多种模式。苏联模式的社会主义显然效率低下，于是苏联解体了。中国曾经尝试过苏联模式，但并不是很成功，然后中国踏上了中国特色社会主义道路。首先进行改革开放，随后发展了中国特色社会主义制度，后来习主席提出了“中国梦”的概念，使中国特色社会主义理念进一步升华。因此社会主义发展模式实际上是对自由主义模式的反击，这就解释了为什么西方会如此害怕中国崛起，因为他们害怕这种社会主义模式，以上就是我的观点。
 
Wang Guan: You just said that socialism with Chinese characteristics or the Chinese version, adapted version of socialism, should be learned and studied by the young people from around the world, especially in the developing world. Why is that?
您刚才说中国特色社会主义或符合中国国情的中国版社会主义值得全世界的年轻人学习研究，特别是发展中国家的年轻人，为什么这么说呢？
 
Yury Tavrovsky: I think the Chinese model is not unique. I think the Chinese model cannot be copied with 3D technology or any other way. Actually taking into account the national conditions and characteristics is the heart of the Chinese model. That's why it's called socialism with Chinese characteristics. Every nation can use socialism, and understand its own specifics, its own traditions. We, in Russia, are now discussing. We have started discussions of using this socialist model once again. And I think that both socialism with Chinese characteristics and Chinese initiative of building a community with shared future for mankind will be very useful for the coming world order, which will replace Western model of globalism pretty soon.
我认为中国模式并非只适用于中国，我认为中国模式无法用3D技术或任何其他方式来复制照搬。实际上，中国模式的核心在于考虑本国国情和发展特点。这就是为什么它被称为中国特色社会主义。每个国家都可以采取社会主义制度。根据本国的具体情况和传统进行调整。俄罗斯正在对此展开讨论，我们在讨论是否应重新采用社会主义发展模式。我认为中国特色社会主义和中国关于建设人类命运共同体的倡议对塑造未来的世界秩序非常有用，它将很快取代西方主导的全球主义模式。


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