Wang Guan: This year marks the centenary of the Communist Party of China. Do you think there's such a thing as a “China model”, and in what ways do you think this “China model” could perhaps inform developing countries?

王冠：今年是中国共产党成立一百周年，您认为是否存在“中国模式”？“中国模式”可以在哪些方面为发展中国家提供参考？

Yan Xuetong: Well, I think the Chinese government has clearly stated it has no intention to export China's model. So from my understanding, China's model is defined as a kind of approach of development with Chinese characteristics. So this kind of achievement is based on a very, very important precondition: the Chinese Communist leadership.

阎学通：我认为中国政府已经明确表示无意输出中国模式，所以根据我的理解，中国模式是指一种具有中国特色的发展道路。中国的成就基于一个非常重要的前提，即中国共产党的领导。

From my understanding, except China, you cannot find any country that has this precondition. That means you cannot find any country that has a Chinese Communist leadership. Without that precondition, I don't think these countries can follow the Chinese model. Second, that model is with the Chinese characteristic. This means that if that country has no Chinese characteristic, then they cannot copy this model.

我认为，除了中国，任何国家都不具备这个前提条件，其他国家没有中国共产党的领导。没有这个前提，其他国家也就无法效仿中国模式。第二，这个模式具有中国特色，也就是说其他国家不具有中国特色，就无法复制这种模式。

Wang Guan: But no matter how many times Beijing says it doesn't intend to make the rest of the world Chinese. It doesn't want to export its political systems. Many in the West simply don't buy it.

王冠：虽然中国政府一再强调，中国无意将全世界改造成中国的模样，也不想输出中国的政治制度。然而，许多西方国家就是不相信。

Yan Xuetong: I think you're absolutely right. And some people think the BRI is an approach to export China's model. Actually, if they examine the BRI project, they will find that, first, all of the BRI projects are bilateral rather than multilateral. Why? That means that you cannot make this kind of cooperation multilaterally. So if everything is bilateral, I doubt you can make it universal. 

阎学通：你说的没错，有些人认为“一带一路”倡议是输出中国模式的手段。实际上，如果他们仔细研究“一带一路”的项目，就会发现，所有的“一带一路”的项目都是双边合作，而非多边合作。为什么呢？因为无法以多边方式开展这种合作，如果都是双边合作，那么倡议本身怎么可能具有普世性？

And so I firmly believe that the Chinese model is very, very special with special characteristics. And the question is not whether China wants to export or not. The question is whether another country can copy it or not. It's just like you find a student that did very well on his exam, but his way to do the exam cannot be copied by anyone else because he did it in a very special way.

因此，我坚信中国模式非常特别，具有特殊性。关键问题并不在于中国是否要输出本国模式，而在于其他国家能否复制它。就像某位学生的考试成绩非常好，但是其他学生可能无法复制，因为他的方式很独特。

Wang Guan: A lot of uniqueness. 

王冠：它是独一无二的。

Yan Xuetong: Yes, the unique model is there.

阎学通：是的，中国模式具有很强的独特性。

Wang Guan: How would you clarify or put into words some of the unique Chinese characteristics that you keep emphasizing? 

王冠：您一直在强调中国模式的独特性，能否具体谈谈中国模式有哪些独有的特点？

Yan Xuetong: I think the uniqueness of a Chinese model is that they adjusted the policy or the governance according to changes as quickly as possible. And this is really difficult because whenever a government adopts a political principle, it's difficult to abandon it or to change it or reform it. But Deng Xiaoping strongly argued that no, we have to do that, and we have to reform this country continuously, endlessly according to the changes of the objective environment. So, I think this is really difficult for other countries to copy. Deng Xiaoping even has a well-known saying, no matter what the color, white or black, what only catches the mouse is a good cat. I doubt any other foreign government would like to use this or a metaphor for them to guiding their political principles.

阎学通：我认为中国模式的独特之处在于，执政者能够根据形势变化来及时调整政策或治理方式。要做到这一点并不容易，因为政府采取的政治方针是很难舍弃或者进行调整改革的。但是邓小平坚决不这么认为，他认为我国必须根据客观环境的变化，与时俱进，不断推进国内改革。我认为其他国家很难复制这一点。邓小平有句名言，不管黑猫白猫，能捉到老鼠就是好猫。我认为其他国家不会愿意用这样的比喻作为指导国家的政治方针。

Wang Guan: Francis Fukuyama wrote an article back in March, lamenting the rigidity of the American system. It's very hard to sell the ideas of the political Right to the Left. It's very hard to convince the liberals of the right wing values. Such is the rigidity of the U.S. system.

王冠：弗朗西斯•福山在3月发表了一篇文章，感叹美国制度的僵化。他表示要让左翼接受右翼的思想非常困难，让自由党人士接受右翼的观点很难。美国制度的僵化可见一斑。

Yan Xuetong: So, once some people asked me, what's the difference between the Chinese concept of legitimacy and the American concept? I said that for Chinese, legitimacy does not mean the process, it means the result. If you do something good, the result is good. This is legitimacy. But in the U.S., it is the opposite. They say, no, no, no. The process should be legitimate, not the result. For Chinese, they are concerned that if you have a good process but which then brings a bad result, so what?

阎学通：有一次，有人问我，中美两国民众对于合法性的理解有什么不同？我说，对中国人来讲，合法性并不单纯意味着过程合法，而是指结果具有合法性。如果你做的是好事，结果是好的，那么就具有合法性。但对美国人来讲恰恰相反，他们会说，不，过程才应当具有合法性，而不是结果。中国人担心，过程虽好，但如果结果不好，又有什么用？

Wang Guan: Very different ideologies and very different value systems, I would say.

王冠：两国认知和价值观体系确实差别很大。

You and your team are putting together the World Peace Forum to talk about U.S.-China post-COVID security cooperation. Tell us more about that. How do you think COVID-19 will shape global geopolitics, especially when it comes to China and U.S. in the security area?

您和您的团队正在筹办世界和平论坛，关注中美后疫情时代的国际安全合作。还请您为我们介绍一下，您认为疫情将如何重塑全球地缘政治，特别是中美两国在安全领域的关系?

Yan Xuetong: Actually, COVID-19 has blocked the whole world and stopped person-to-person contact, and without person-to-person contact diplomacy cannot achieve its fundamental role. And so now people call this virtual diplomacy either as “microphone diplomacy” or “code diplomacy”. Biden's recent person-to-person diplomacy in Europe achieved some results and has made people realize that diplomacy must be carried out with the approach of people to people. You cannot rely on website diplomacy to settle problems or improve the relationship or unite or consolidate the relationship. 

阎学通：实际上，疫情导致全世界陷入封锁状态，阻断了人与人的联系。没有人与人的联系，外交就无法发挥其根本作用。现在人们把这种线上的虚拟外交称为“麦克风外交”或“代码外交”。你会发现最近拜登在欧洲进行的面对面外交取得了一些成果，也使人们认识到，外交还是需要以面对面的方式进行，不能依靠线上外交来解决问题、改善关系或加强团结合作。

And besides that, COVID-19 also blocked people-to-people contact at the social level. Without people-to-people contact, there's no cooperation. That's just how it is. We never talk about human cooperation on the moon, because there's no humans there, right? So now I think COVID-19 has really made anti-globalization move forward rather than to push for or resume globalization.

此外，新冠肺炎疫情还阻断了人们的日常社交。倘若没有面对面的交流，就难以建立合作，事实就是如此。正如我们永远不会说人类与月球谈合作，因为那里没有人，对吧？所以，我认为疫情使逆全球化趋势愈演愈烈，而不是促使世界回到全球化的轨道上来。